Veteran filmmaker Ramesh Sippy’s all-time classic Sholay completed 50 years recently on August 15. Starring Amitabh Bachchan, Dharmendra, Sanjeev Kumar, Amjad Khan, Hema Malini and Jaya Bachchan, the movie is still remembered fondly today. In an interview with us, Sippy looked back at the film and what it means to him.
I am sure you are sick and tired of talking about Sholay over and over again I am sure you will find a way to take our conversations through alleys that I haven’t been through before. Besides talking about a film which made history on so many levels can never be tiresome.
So, Rameshji, let's start. So, you know, it's been 50 years and of course, we are all celebrating. But somewhere do you think that Sholay became such a signature film for you that you can’t shake off?
No regret at all. Sholay was an outstanding hit. It was bound to take the lead. And everything is overshadowed.
I am very fond of your Shakti. I have told you this many times. I think Shakti is a better film than Sholay. Do you feel that Shakti is as powerful? They are different. They belong to different… it is a dramatic film. Father and son conflict. This is an action-adventure and all thrown in together. So there is a much wider appeal. Quite the mass entertainer, which, I mean, no other film has been able to achieve that level of mass entertainment. It is an entertainer which is made with finesse. So, I have no regrets. Not that I did anything special in Sholay. I did not treat any film differently.
Ramesh ji, if I ask you to pick out the one component in Sholay, which played the biggest part in making it what it is today, a historic film, which component would you choose? If there was one component, then it wouldn't have been such a big hit. Everything worked. It was a combination of everything. It had music, friendship, love, drama, spectacle, it had it all. And all in the right ingredient, all in the right proportion. That is the key. I can't analyse its success. That is why it took me a long time to understand. I tried to do the complete opposite in Shaan. And it didn’t work.
There are kinds of revisionist interpretations to Sholay. They say that the relationship between Veeru and Jai has a tinge of homoeroticism about it. When you hear these interpretations, do you laugh or do you get exasperated?
Not at all. As a matter of fact, nobody has told me that. And nobody questioned it. Today they are talking about it because such things are open to discussion now. They can describe it any way they want. Of course, everyone has the right to come up with their own little theory.
About the casting, everyone wanted to play Gabbar. Amitji has told me he was very keen on Gabbar. Everyone knew that Gabbar would be the most popular character in the film. So why did you pick a newcomer? Danny, of course, was your first choice. Am I correct?
Correct. And he was signed for Sholay. But he got stuck with Feroz Khan’s Dharmatma in Afghanistan. And he said, it would be difficult to get him. So we had to move on to Amjad Khan, another formidable actor. We auditioned him. Not a full-fledged audition. We made him do a scene or two from the film. Not even a scene or two. Just the get-up. And the fact that he was the great Jayant's son, Hindi, Urdu, whatever, was fine. There was no... linguistic problem. None at all. And I called him from the beginning of the shooting, although his work started quite late.
So Amjad had no problem getting Gabbar right? I had a bit of a problem getting him to coordinate between his action on his palm, the rubbing of the khaini (tobacco) and the dialogues. While he was talking, he would stop that action. When he was doing the action, he would not be talking. Such a minor thing if you think about it, but a problem nonetheless. And then I said, you have to rehearse till you get it right. You have to keep doing it and also talking. So that was the only problem with getting Gabbar right. Okay. Okay, okay. Once he had that right, then we started work. Okay. So that out of the way, everything smooth sailing.
What a Gabbar he made. Spectacular. And, you know, he remained Gabbar. If you had to do Sholay now, what would you change? Nothing. After you've seen it. Yes. And after the world has embraced it, why would one make any change?
Whatever I was doing, I tried to do it to the best of my ability. In Sholay, I wanted to do what they called a Westerns in those days… If I could do a Western like Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid, Mckenna’s Gold, and The Magnificent Seven. So, all those kind of films, this one was from that genre. When I did this, the Bond-like thing in Shaan didn’t work.
I didn’t much like R D Burman’s songs in Sholay No? ‘Mehbooba’ was a big hit, ‘Yeh dosti’. That has become THE Dosti song today. And ‘Holi ke din’ is played every Holi alongside ‘Rang barse’ from Silsila. So, every song had its own flavour.
Sholay is considered the one single most influential and impactful film of Indian cinema. That reputation of the film, well-earned, does it make you feel big? Does it make you feel that you have achieved something, a landmark? So, does that give you a sense of triumph, a sense of achievement? Do you look in the mirror, sir, and say, I am the man who made Sholay?
Never. That's not me. Otherwise, why would I think like that when I know that when I'm making something, I'm doing my best and still it won’t be as celebrated as Sholay. It doesn't always turn out to be something that ends up on the pedestal. Sholay’s got that pedestal but it was criticized when it was released.
It didn’t do well in the first week at all? No. Again, that’s a fallacy. There was no sign it was not accepted. That was the reading of trade papers. Okay. They felt Sholay was doomed. And their doomsday prophecy was based on a very simple thing. How will it recover its costs? To be called a hit, it must recover so much. That's impossible. How will it happen? That kind of question mark. So it’s not true that it didn’t open well. Minerva or Excelsior both with 70mm and 33 other cinemas in Mumbai. Then later on it went to Delhi and UP Punjab.
But why was there an emergency meeting of the Sholay team two days after release? Many people commented that Amitabh Bachchan should not have died. They felt he had become so popular that they felt very bad that he died. But that is the emotion that was necessary. We had a meeting to discuss what to do. He died in Deewaar and my Shakti. But in these, he was a grey character. In Sholay, Amitabh Bachchan was a positive character. It was two friends. So why did he have to go? But he did.
So now the film will be released with the original ending where the Thakur stomps Gabbar to death? About that at the moment it's a controversy that I don't want to get into.
But are you happy that the original ending has been restored? I think I better not comment on this thing.
All right. So that’s fine. And the film is going to Toronto Film Festival. Will you be there? Yes. If it reaches there so will I.
Could we expect another Sholay from you? So many diversions, TV and OTT, the business has enlarged. So we have to look at it like that rather than look at it like that, ki ab 5 saal nahin chalegi, 10 saal nahin chalegi. I am working on something and hopefully I should be on it in a year's time. I'm working on the script. And hopefully I should be coming out with something. I should be ready to get on to the floors probably 6 to 12 months. And all I can assure you is that it will have my best.
Also Read: 50 Years of Sholay: India’s first stuntwoman Reshma Pathan opens up about risking her life for a Hema Malini scene in the film
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